tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post2469583317946691300..comments2024-03-19T04:48:29.677+00:00Comments on Penny Red: Any utterance unaimed will be disclaimed, will be maimed...Penny Redhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07677315565893516941noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-19818778060654740992021-11-19T08:11:08.128+00:002021-11-19T08:11:08.128+00:00If you face any kind of problem related to any equ...If you face any kind of problem related to any equipment you can call us. You can call 24/7 without any issue. All the problems related to any device will be solved online in a couple of minutes by our expert technicians. Besides computer support, we can easily handle issues related to smart tv, home theatre, car electronics, home repairs, office equipment repair, etc.After reading the detailed guide about how to set up your canon printer, you must gain the confidence to set up your printer on your own. 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You can do it due to <a href="https://fivebestvpn.com/review/vyprvpn/" rel="nofollow">vypr vpn</a>.Hel Stonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11660406066605772303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-68126129770778445382013-01-05T06:19:02.738+00:002013-01-05T06:19:02.738+00:00You seem to recoil from your conclusion, there is ... You seem to recoil from your conclusion, there is the faintest whiff of burning, or at least definitely should-not-read, book there. What exactly are you advocating people do with this? What is the critique FOR, other than your having fun writing the post <a href="http://www.buy-fans.org/" rel="nofollow">buy facebook fans</a><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-39842858734722621022009-02-19T18:48:00.000+00:002009-02-19T18:48:00.000+00:00Pythoness: that's a delightful satire on the probl...Pythoness: that's a delightful satire on the problems with One True Way-ism. Well illustrated :)John Q. Publicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11333595645345108989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-52861509484017391252009-02-19T17:58:00.000+00:002009-02-19T17:58:00.000+00:00Brothers! Sisters! Only children!It has been revea...Brothers! Sisters! Only children!<BR/><BR/>It has been revealed to me by an angelic harbinger that God, the universe and everything are but fleeting fragments of a dream fermented in the febrile sensorium of an intoxicated hypnogogic tree frog, which lives on a barge made out of tea trays, moored on a dun coloured canal which winds its serpentine way from ocean to ocean across the isthmus of a land mass on a large pluvial planet that exists in a parallel world. <BR/><BR/>I FEEL in my heart that this is the truth and so KNOW that it must be TRUE as a matter of personal faith.<BR/><BR/>Prove me wrong!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-34304649025311905722009-02-19T13:26:00.000+00:002009-02-19T13:26:00.000+00:00Regarding the "Probably no God" campaign: I say ag...Regarding the "Probably no God" campaign: I say again, I'm all in favour. This is true mainly because that phrase is exactly where a skeptic should be: there's probably no God but all the data has not yet been gathered, and until it is the skeptic will hold no firm opinion.<BR/><BR/>Most atheists, as opposed to people who self-define as agnostic (meaning uninvolved with deity and unsure of its existence) have, in my experience, a very firm view on the issue. There <EM>is</EM> no god. They will often tell you why, at great length. They frequently remind me of Bible Belt Christians while doing so.<BR/><BR/><EM>a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated</EM><BR/><BR/>That's the definition of doctrine that I am familiar with, and it is the one I was using when I stated that atheism not only has, but effectively <EM>is</EM>, a doctrine. By its nature, however, it can escape becoming a dogma; and like Penny, it annoys me when it is used as one.John Q. Publicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11333595645345108989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-33215119831870697412009-02-19T12:39:00.000+00:002009-02-19T12:39:00.000+00:00Laurie: You advocate skepticism, and yet you also ...Laurie: You advocate skepticism, and yet you also say it upsets you when atheists "start attacking other [sic] faiths". However, it's a pretty standard activity for a skeptic to argue against positions with which they disagree. I don't think it's an act of "intolerance" to criticise a faith; after all, for a public forum to be intellectually honest and stimulating, it is necessary not only that ideas are proposed, but also that they can be argued against. It's one thing to respect a person's right to hold a belief, and another thing entirely to unquestioningly respect the belief itself, and I'd argue that in a polite society, only one of those is necessary.<BR/><BR/>I suppose it comes down to what, precisely, you mean by "attack" - if you can provide an example of someone being genuinely intolerant towards people of faith, then that's obviously not on. Which brings me to my second point. "Atheist intolerance" is a pretty strong claim; can you provide some examples of it? I expect there is some of it out there, but I'd suggest it's in no way common or representative of a majority. Which is why some of what you've been saying has troubled me, because the way you've said it, you've rather been tarring a good deal of us with the same brush, which is a bit unfortunate.Thaddeus "B." Glandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556613269116844960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-2607751947813337412009-02-19T12:09:00.000+00:002009-02-19T12:09:00.000+00:00Okay, PR, but you're a bit to smart for your own g...Okay, PR, but you're a bit to smart for your own good if you ask me.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if I put my mind to it whether I could actually beat you in a battle of wits? I can be quite formidable myself. Hmm. If not in wit then surely I could best you at arm wrestling? <BR/><BR/>Oh yes!<BR/><BR/>:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-55354297913091436502009-02-19T11:59:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:59:00.000+00:00Alathea - I've read a lot of Dawkins' writing, alt...Alathea - I've read a lot of Dawkins' writing, although I haven't been lucky enough to meet the man in person.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Atheism is a statement of belief - a statement of belief that there is no god. Not only am I down with that, I believe that atheists have as much right to have their beliefs recognised as anyone else, hence why I think the bus advert campaign is a great idea. But it really gets me riled up when atheists get so defensive that they start attacking other faiths, which - with all the furore around the atheist bus campaign - is what seems to have been happening. <BR/><BR/>There is a difference between atheism and skepticism, as JQP says. I'd go so far as to say that skepticism taken to its logical conclusion would be incompatible with atheism, being that the latter is a definite position, and the former exists to question all definite positions. <BR/><BR/>Doctrine. Right, dictionaryonline has -<BR/><BR/>'a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school'<BR/><BR/>dictionary.com has:<BR/><BR/>'a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine. '<BR/><BR/>And here, I think, we come to the crux. Doctrine implies not only a firmly-held position, but advocation of that position, even teaching of it. I think that's what atheists have been doing in the public sphere in recent months, and I'd question the way it's been done, which to my thinking deliberately echoes some of the worst type of theistic smugness, but I'd not challenge the fact that it's being done. I think it's about time.<BR/><BR/>I get annoyed with atheists who become petty, smug or vitriolic. That was all my original comment was intended to communicate. I think atheists and skeptics should be better than that, because I firmly believe that this period of human history needs to be an age of both atheism and skepticism. I respect the right of all religions to a public voice, but I believe that atheism and skepticism are and should be the tools of reasoned debate, anti-extremism and humanist and socialist acheivement in the 21st century. I believe that atheism and skepticism desperately need to represent a mature, tolerant and reasonable public position. And *that* is why atheist intolerance makes me so very, very frustrated. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for making me explain my position, guys. I've thought about it a bit more now. :)Penny Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07677315565893516941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-3289038010933595712009-02-19T11:51:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:51:00.000+00:00I don't know about all this "There is probably no ...I don't know about all this "There is probably no God" thing on buses or not but I do believe that "Heineken is probably the best lager in the world".<BR/><BR/>For sure!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-89559392156784583192009-02-19T11:46:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:46:00.000+00:00Can disbelief actually be a belief?Discuss.Can disbelief actually be a belief?<BR/><BR/>Discuss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-66275378043289126242009-02-19T11:38:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:38:00.000+00:00That is kind of my point. I don't think atheism ex...That is kind of my point. I don't think atheism exists to be bound in such a way. And the very limit of applying religious terminology that can be held up grammatically is to say we have a creed of non belief. But it doesn't really work.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862151942332400732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-76404907891347905882009-02-19T11:35:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:35:00.000+00:00@ Siân.Why would atheists need a creed? Or to orga...@ Siân.<BR/><BR/>Why would atheists need a creed? Or to organise themselves in a recognisable and formal way? <BR/><BR/>The whole idea of atheism is to abandon the mythology of divine authority, whose will is received and interpreted on earth by a self-styled priesthood, and hence to liberate oneself from the need for any creed, canon or sundry man-made dogma?<BR/><BR/>Atheism is about freedom, not foible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-76838483853281191352009-02-19T11:30:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:30:00.000+00:00"That ceases to be true when atheists start runnin...<I>"That ceases to be true when atheists start running bus campaigns telling other people what to think."</I><BR/><BR/>Statements such as these suggest that one has a limited idea of what one is talking about.<BR/><BR/>Those campaigns have nothing to do with "telling other people what to think", and much more to do with simply having a public voice.<BR/><BR/>Continuing to insist that there is an Atheist Doctrine might keep you busy, but it does not change the fact that it isn't true. A lack of a belief in a Creator God, is simply <I>not</I> a doctrine.Thaddeus "B." Glandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556613269116844960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-61479952430992089652009-02-19T11:29:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:29:00.000+00:00It's not a doctrine. I could give you creed, in th...It's not a doctrine. I could give you creed, in that denial of God could be argued to be a statement of belief, though I'm not totally convinced as it is a statement of non belief. And 'there's probably non God' is not exactly the most powerful way to make an argument or tell people what to believe. In fact I find it incomprehensible that a statement that merely throws doubt on the existence of God is interpreted as dictatorial.<BR/> <BR/>A doctrine is an actively taught organised system of policies attached to a government or a religion. Atheism lacks both the framework and such a coherent raft of ideas beyond being loosely bound by a lack of faith.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862151942332400732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-14805092972627819472009-02-19T11:18:00.000+00:002009-02-19T11:18:00.000+00:00Such an idea is patently bollocks. The only unitin...<EM>Such an idea is patently bollocks. The only uniting cause for atheists is a lack of a belief in a theistic force. That's not a doctrine and never could be</EM><BR/><BR/>That ceases to be true when atheists start running bus campaigns telling other people what to think. At that point they have a doctrine, and indeed they have a dogma.<BR/><BR/>The example of an 'atheist Nikean Creed' is a red herring; "There's probably no God" is a short doctrine but it is one, nevertheless. "There <STRONG>is</STRONG> no god" is also a doctrine, and one I encounter much more frequently than the previous one, from people who self-define as atheists.<BR/><BR/>I personally think the campaign is brilliant. I love the fact it exists and I love the fact people are allowed to ridicule it, just as they do the Alpha course adverts or the one which I recently saw saying words to the effect of 'only the fool denies the presence of the Lord', which is clearly an attempt at subtly calling Dawkins a fool. Silly people.<BR/><BR/>The philosophical principle of questioning all things is simply skepticism. To be atheism, it must go one step further and make a statement about theism. Thus, by infection, doctrine creeps in.John Q. Publicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11333595645345108989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-67426420087016411482009-02-19T10:50:00.000+00:002009-02-19T10:50:00.000+00:00Question everythign is all well and good. That's p...Question everythign is all well and good. That's pretty much the basis of atheism. Question and don't give automatic credance to anything. I'm puzzled to see someone as clever as you spout the line "atheist doctrine' though. Such an idea is patently bollocks. The only uniting cause for atheists is a lack of a belief in a theistic force. That's not a doctrine and never could be. Atheists might organise themselves around various banners, political and philosophical but that doesn't make any position the atheist position. I respect and like Dawkins, but I very much doubt I agree with all his politics, nor would I change my position based on his pronunciations. I find him interesting and I admire him for saying a lot of things about organised religion that somebody needed to say. BUt again, significant;y that's not a doctrine. Show me the Atheist Nicene Creed and maybe I'll believe that old chesnut.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862151942332400732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-2724386210441657552009-02-19T10:48:00.000+00:002009-02-19T10:48:00.000+00:00@ Clamorous Voice. Don't go around disliking and l...@ Clamorous Voice. <BR/><BR/>Don't go around disliking and looking down your nose at poor old Richard Dawkins, Clammy. If you form a habit of doing things like that... well... wouldn't it be rather <I>anti-Christian</I> of you?<BR/><BR/>(This is a joke by the way!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-31481152805282588992009-02-19T10:23:00.000+00:002009-02-19T10:23:00.000+00:00Oh, well, yes, Dawkins (anyone who knows me will k...Oh, well, yes, Dawkins (anyone who knows me will know the tone in which I say this). I don't like him either (not because he's an atheist). I also resent the idea that respecting science and being a Christian are incompatible, and I welcome everything P Red says in her comment being 'Sorry about that, guys'..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-20587415008909980642009-02-19T09:11:00.000+00:002009-02-19T09:11:00.000+00:00I have a confession to make!I like Richard Dawkins...I have a confession to make!<BR/><BR/>I like Richard Dawkins!<BR/><BR/>Although Dawkins has become an involuntary figurehead for the humanist cause, were you to talk to him or even read any of his superbly written, well argued and erudite books your negative views of the man might well be completely dispelled. Besides being scholarly Dawkins is also witty and very, very funny as I am sure another commentator on this blog, Thaddeus, will agree. <BR/><BR/>Chill out, Penny. <BR/><BR/>As you should know better than any of us liberty cannot exist without tolerance and debate.<BR/><BR/>Viva la difference!<BR/><BR/>Oh! And isn't Buddhism innately atheistic? The Buddha only claimed to have found a way to escape from the wheel of eternal suffering didn't he? Or do you know something that we don't know?<BR/><BR/>Om mani padme hum...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-48016249659771748852009-02-18T21:47:00.000+00:002009-02-18T21:47:00.000+00:00Sashagoblin - chill out, chuck! My given name actu...Sashagoblin - chill out, chuck! My given name actually happens to be Suzana which I truncate to Suzie when amongst friends. I happen to like Susie Orbach, but my moniker, Suzie O, is not supposed to be some kind of bizarre homage to Susie O(rbach) or anybody else for that matter.<BR/><BR/>So Sash, I didn't misspell my name at all, it was you who misinterpreted it contextually.<BR/><BR/>To the pure all things are pure!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-11588983308308660522009-02-18T20:49:00.000+00:002009-02-18T20:49:00.000+00:00oops sorry - fixed!oops sorry - fixed!Penny Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07677315565893516941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-10117865882064922782009-02-18T20:04:00.000+00:002009-02-18T20:04:00.000+00:00'Susie'? Pretty pretty please? If you don't want t...'Susie'? Pretty pretty please? If you don't want to explain your objections, fair dos, but please spell the poor woman right!Goblinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12439664075738595025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-21376790601426671092009-02-18T19:07:00.000+00:002009-02-18T19:07:00.000+00:00Intelligent Designer: Phew! It seems I've been c...Intelligent Designer: Phew! It seems I've been caught out by Poe's Law. I like My Name is Earl, but I don't watch it often enough to recognise the quote. At any rate, I'm happier with the prospect of me looking like a bit of a prat over one where you actually believed that.<BR/><BR/>Laurie: Thanks for clearing that up. I feel a bit better knowing that you don't consider liking Darwin to be prejudicial in nature.<BR/><BR/>That said, I would still take issue with your attack of "Dawkinsites" as something of an assault on a straw-man. He seems to have become a punching bag for opponents of atheism who wish to present him as some kind of leader of a nefarious group of mindless literalists who want to ban all religion and hate beauty and never want to have fun, and are really horrible to boot. Whilst I don't think you actually believe that, I do think it's quite easy to be drawn in by some of the rhetoric surrounding the issue and end up believing things that aren't strictly true.<BR/><BR/>For instance, I'm sorry you feel people are telling you that you're "not allowed" to respect science and be spiritual in the manner of your choosing. That said, I've not come across that as the prevailing attitude in any of the atheist groups or blogs I'm familiar with (fans of Dawkins or otherwise). I've certainly seen the veiwpoint that scientific naturalism and spirituality are incompatible by nature, but that outlook imposes no dictum on the positions others can hold.<BR/><BR/>Similarly, I think the way you talk about "the way that people idolise Richard Dawkins" touches on another straw-man argument that these people tend to bring up; namely that Dawkins is some kind of Evil Atheist Pope, and it's just like a religion really.<BR/><BR/>This particular "well, you do it too!" fallacy is one I find particularly confusing. Not only is it not true, it's not a particularly good defense for a religious viewpoint. <BR/><BR/>I happen to think quite highly of Dawkins; he's a good writer and he has some interesting and well-reasoned things to say, but I'd never say that I "idolise" him, and I don't really think I've come across anyone else who does.Thaddeus "B." Glandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556613269116844960noreply@blogger.com