tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post2027690892358240148..comments2024-03-28T11:31:11.928+00:00Comments on Penny Red: ACPO advises women: stay sober to avoid rapePenny Redhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07677315565893516941noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-47907271626720539972022-08-16T05:10:07.261+01:002022-08-16T05:10:07.261+01:00a5y40y6o18 g2x89s4e22 n0h64o0m02 b0e45o9u11 l8... <a href="https://shaneaul30846.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>a5y40y6o18</strong></a> g2x89s4e22 <a href="https://whisayth87022.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>n0h64o0m02</strong></a> b0e45o9u11 <a href="https://nisteau71983.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><strong>l8h04j4t91</strong></a> p9p18v4r47steahethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13701156918752646098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-5906306625621664522021-07-21T11:32:50.379+01:002021-07-21T11:32:50.379+01:00curry
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Get a life!!! My blog: <a href="http://portabledvdplayerreviews.org" rel="nofollow">portable dvd player reviews</a>blogloverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01841685556836916710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-80245186986853889452009-12-19T13:22:20.225+00:002009-12-19T13:22:20.225+00:00Viking,
you want to ask 'normal' men what...Viking,<br /><br />you want to ask 'normal' men what they would do to a rapist who touched their girlfriend/sister.<br /><br />Obviously, yes, they would be horrified.<br />But I'm sure rapists also have sisters and mothers and if told they had been raped would be 'horrified'.<br /><br />Home Office statistics show that 45% of rapes were committed by perpetrators who were the victim's partner at the time of the attack...<br /><br />Many rasists are these 'normal' men you speak of...the stereotype of a crazed, mentally ill, deranged man running around alleys raping women does not mirror the reality that in only 8% of rapes is the attacker a complete stranger.Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-68716338241087691492009-12-13T09:39:55.282+00:002009-12-13T09:39:55.282+00:00FYI the words 'if it is a risk factor at all&#...FYI the words 'if it is a risk factor at all' refer to this piece by Ben Goldacre http://www.badscience.net/2009/07/asking-for-it/<br /><br />“We found no evidence that that women who are more outgoing are more likely to be raped, this is completely inaccurate, we found no difference whatsoever. The alcohol thing is also completely wrong: if anything, we found that men reported they were willing to go further with women who are completely sober.”charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-32645225239687433382009-12-13T09:35:13.781+00:002009-12-13T09:35:13.781+00:00I am wondering how much of this is about improving...I am wondering how much of this is about improving their conviction rates. There are more significant risk factors (if it is a risk factor at all) but it does make prosecuting cases more difficult if the defence cast doubt on witness testimony as 'impaired' through alcohol.charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-43298188372206948862009-12-09T01:58:33.957+00:002009-12-09T01:58:33.957+00:00En Masse??
Why I am saying it is because rapists a...En Masse??<br />Why I am saying it is because rapists are sexual deviants. Are you saying they ARE normal?<br />Maybe that's way rapists, when they are caught, parade proudly through their prisons, cheered on by the other inmates as heroes.<br />No? <br />Maybe I am out of touch, but ask any man what he will do to such a pervert and he will tell you, and the word "police" will not be mentioned.<br />These animals are not only the worst kind of criminals - worse than some murderers in my view - but they give all men a bad name.Tim Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02470464053181422637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-45773633452826682432009-12-08T12:57:01.097+00:002009-12-08T12:57:01.097+00:00Excuse me Viking, why are you saying that in Brita...Excuse me Viking, why are you saying that in Britain rapists "are not 'normal' men" ? It is this denial of the fact that it is actually 'normal' men who rape that allows the en masse rape of women in Britain to continue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-73367877407634748092009-12-05T17:36:04.446+00:002009-12-05T17:36:04.446+00:00In South Africa the Mantra is "Real Men Don&#...In South Africa the Mantra is "Real Men Don't Rape", and as such this is an acknowledgement that the victims can do little to prevent it.<br />However, rape is part of the culture there, whereas in Britain, rapists are sexual deviants.<br /><br />They are not "normal" men.<br /><br />Bearing that in mind, what good does it do telling them not to do it? Rather ask the question to "normal" men, what would they do to a rapist who touched their sister/girlfriend etc.? You will not find sympathy for the rapist.<br /><br />Taking for granted that the perpetrators cannot be convinced, it makes sense to offer support to potential victims. We all warm our kids there are bad people out there. It can't hurt to remind our female citizens of the same dangers.Tim Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02470464053181422637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-87255168983296375552009-12-05T15:15:01.329+00:002009-12-05T15:15:01.329+00:00Personally, I don't think this intends to, or ...Personally, I don't think this intends to, or does, blame women for being raped at all. It's just a message to help women stay safer, much like "don't leave your car unlocked" and such. Ideally, no rape or robbery would occur in either situation, but you can't say that neither action (not getting entirely smashed-drunk or locking your car) is an entirely unreasonable precaution.<br /><br /> 'Blame' is entirely the wrong word, as no matter how drunk someone is, or how unlocked their car is, they are not responsible for the crime against them - but I really don't see the logic behind lashing out against attempts to remind people of this, and other well-intentioned attempts to prevent rape and abuse of women, in place of going after legitimate targets such as the people responsible for such heinous crimes.Serenissimanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-77100045935688253222009-12-05T00:55:06.356+00:002009-12-05T00:55:06.356+00:00Yes, you may well be right, but pointing out that...Yes, you may well be right, but pointing out that in absolute terms more women are raped when they haven`t been drinking than when they have doesn`t really show anyone anything, since most people spend alot more time not drinking than drinking.<br />I guess the way to decide whether drinking itself is a risk factor is to take a similar activity (going to the cinema, going out but not drinking, going to work) and seeing whether women who drink are more likely to be raped than those who aren`t. Otherwise we`re comparing apples and oranges which was my original point. <br /><br />I most certainly do not blame the woman and find it extremely puzzling that someone can think a world in which it is considered acceptable for men to walk in on their friend having sex and demand a gangbang (are we talking about footballers here?) is not one in which sexual morality has been completely discarded and that this isn`t at least part of the problem.<br />Gangbangs are a normal part of thier weekend with their friends? Degrading sex has been normalised to these people - of course they can`t understand no ... why would anyone say no, anything goes right?<br />That`s what you get when anything goes - behaviour more appropriate for cavemen or horror movie characters than civilised human beings.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-75076625049270605952009-12-04T20:02:06.527+00:002009-12-04T20:02:06.527+00:00For what it's worth I think you're complet...For what it's worth I think you're completely wrong about this. Why shouldn't you be advised honestly about what will decrease your chances of being raped? We don't exactly live in an idyll where we can hope men won't take advantage of women who are not in complete control of themselves. (Not that that's any reason not to keep trying to make meaningful changes.)<br /><br />An analogous case - I, as a young man, take note of an sometimes follow similar advice about how to avoid being attacked. Eg. avoid that dark alley, do not get so drunk you're not in control etc. (Incidentally I choose this case because young men are actually the strata of society most likely to be involved in violent incidents - the statistical case for this is cast-iron).<br /><br />It is not my fault if I am attacked. Just as it is not a woman's if she gets raped. However, in either case you can take precautions to help avoid having either eventuality occur.<br /><br />You should not be so quick to conflate fault and rape-avoidance; one of the sad facts of time has been how the two *have* been allowed to *seem* interconnected when they're not.Xaviernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-6348886986603015342009-12-04T19:39:40.973+00:002009-12-04T19:39:40.973+00:00I'd like to advise that it's the men that ...I'd like to advise that it's the men that stay sober this Christmas instead.Stephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-40832553488202005682009-12-04T16:25:13.629+00:002009-12-04T16:25:13.629+00:00""However, I`d suggest that what as led ...""However, I`d suggest that what as led to an increase in violent crime over the last 50 odd years is the advent of the permissive society. <br />"""<br /><br />Oh I missed this bit. Are you related to Mary Whitehouse Mark? However given your views, you will no doubt believe that the woman in the example I've given above was to blame for being raped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-51695587175303584752009-12-04T16:21:48.550+00:002009-12-04T16:21:48.550+00:00""Therefore statistically speaking, to a...""Therefore statistically speaking, to avoid rape, women should be drunk at all times!"<br /><br />Isn`t that a bit like saying that more people get injured while walking down the street than playing in rugby matches, so we should all play in rugby matches all the time?""""<br /><br /><br /><br />The point I was making Mark which I will explain in even more depth because you don't seem to understand it is that you shouldn't assume that because two events coincide, one causes the other. But you obviously still are doing that, and don't understand the difference between correlationa and causation. The point is I have yet to see anyone claim that being sober makes you more likely to be raped. <br /><br />What is being claimed here is that drinking makes you take risks that mean you are more likely to be raped. What are these risks? Walking home late at night? Well if I go out for the evening, I'm probably going to do that anyway, whether I've been drinking or not. <br /><br />So what other risks might a woman conceivably take when drunk that she wouldn't take when sober? Being alone with a man for example. Well again that can happen when you are drunk or sober. It may well be the case after the type of social occasions such as parties or going to nightclubs/bars when people ALSO drink that someone will go back to someone else's house, or invite them back to theirs. But again there is no evidence I can think of that drunk women, are more likely to be alone with a man than sober women. <br /><br />It's the men that are the risk factor here Mark, not the drink. I've been drunk loads of times, I've never been raped, and I'm statistically very much less likely to be raped than a lot of women -because I'm a lesbian and don't really spend time socialising with straight men, plus I don't have male sexual partners - the biggest risk factor bar none. <br /><br />Take this (true) story for example. A woman goes back to a man's house for sex, which she wants and consents to. His housemates come in,decide they want to join in, which she does not consent to. They rape her. <br /><br />Had she been drinking? Yes. Did drinking lead her to be raped? No.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-56537707014747712922009-12-04T02:00:06.293+00:002009-12-04T02:00:06.293+00:00Talk about pandering to poor ickle rapists' fe...Talk about pandering to poor ickle rapists' fears - it's not the (statistically unlikely) "long sentence", but the horrific impact on the victim that should matter.who knowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15637159745406600783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-57008110807403887252009-12-04T00:57:37.700+00:002009-12-04T00:57:37.700+00:00"Therefore statistically speaking, to avoid r..."Therefore statistically speaking, to avoid rape, women should be drunk at all times!"<br /><br />Isn`t that a bit like saying that more people get injured while walking down the street than playing in rugby matches, so we should all play in rugby matches all the time?<br /><br />Vanilla, I `m not sure that English manners are that good anymore (though probably still alot better than most places) - but the idea that we can control peoples sexual and violent impulses while at the same time telling them they can do anything they like strikes me as a bit of a funny idea. The one time when English people are given license to do as they wish (at the pub, when drunk) they choose to spend their time shouting, fighting and generally making a nuisance of themselves. <br />There may well be some kind of primeval rage within the British that must be controlled by good manners.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-43452187779425702542009-12-03T23:03:10.031+00:002009-12-03T23:03:10.031+00:00--> Interesting stats, Polly, but my feeling is...--> Interesting stats, Polly, but my feeling is that with this campaign ACPO is seeking to help the 44% of women who are raped by strangers, not those raped by people they already know, and it would be good to know what proportion of those women have been drunk when raped.<br /><br />I accept that a woman may be as able to fight off a man drunk as when sober, but I do think she is more likely to be put herself in more dangerous situations. Thinking about friends who have got excessively drunk (male and female), dangerous behaviour has included accepting lifts from people you wouldn't normally trust, getting off the bus late at night in the middle of dodgy areas by accident, taking drugs you don't know the provenance of and walking through parks you would distrust even in daylight. All of these increase the risk of rape and can be caused by alcohol. They also increase the risk of mugging and murder, but ACPO isn't targeting those crimes in this campaign.<br /><br />I should add that I absolutely don't think any woman who gets raped should blame herself, whether drunk or not, and if she does feel that way then she should be seeking therapy. <br /><br />I also think that lines such as "I've learned the hard way not to get drunk around men" and "all men need to learn that they do not have a right to use another person's body" are very insulting to men ... given that the majority of men do not rape, these comments are simply oversimplistic and sexist. It discredits your point to send out cheap shots demonising an entire half of the human race.Rick Bothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09754983389203055815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-67191514496381284212009-12-03T21:23:33.067+00:002009-12-03T21:23:33.067+00:00I do hate how the focus of rape is all too often o...I do hate how the focus of rape is all too often on the victim and not the people who actually rape.victorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-45407123726887774062009-12-03T21:01:24.264+00:002009-12-03T21:01:24.264+00:00"""It is a sad truth that very drun..."""It is a sad truth that very drunk women are often the target of rape"""<br /><br />Well yes, except that the majority of women who say they have been raped are sober. 65% in fact<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4548534.stm<br /><br />Therefore statistically speaking, to avoid rape, women should be drunk at all times! <br /><br />What is being (falsely) assumed here is that drinking places a woman more at risk of being raped than not drinking. Rather than rape can often occur on social occasions when COINCIDENTALLY a woman has consumed alcohol, as often happens on social occasions. In other words you're assuming a causal relationship that there is no evidence for. <br /><br />There is an obvious causal relationship between drinking alcohol, then driving and having car accidents. In that alcohol slows reaction times and makes you more likely to crash a car. <br /><br />Alcohol does not make a woman more vulnerable to rape, unless she's actually unconscious. What happens is a woman frequently, for example, meets a man on a social occasion when alcohol is being consumed, and said man then rapes her. It's the presence of the man that's the problem, not the drink. <br /><br />You're assuming that if a woman is sober she is more able to resist a rapist than when she's been drinking, which is also a false assumption. Again, unless a woman is actually passed out, her ability to fight off a rapist isn't really limited by the odd drink. Speaking personally, I'm MORE likely to punch someone when I'm drunk than when I'm sober. <br /><br />'Don't drink so much you pass out' is probably good advice for everyone, not just women. Men can get robbed, and yes, raped, too. But ACPO are only targeting women. That's the problem here. <br /><br />The thing a woman that is most likely to put a woman at risk of being raped is quite simply having a sexual relationship with a man. 56% of women who are raped are raped by a partner or former partner.<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2146077.stm<br /><br />When I see ACPO advocating political lesbianism, I'll believe they want to stop rape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-72733651984694406962009-12-03T13:35:42.156+00:002009-12-03T13:35:42.156+00:00I totally agree with Laurie that women already kno...I totally agree with Laurie that women already know to be weary of rape and/or violence against them - we grow up in a culture of fear that is exasperated with every further act of misogynistic violence that makes it into the news. A poster campaign trying to further this weariness is a bit patronising really, and a total waste of resources.<br /><br />I think for the day we see a major, overt, in-your-face campaign against raping - "Don't drink and rape" etc. One that squarely places blame on rapists for rape - not tries to discourage them from raping by saying "you might end up in prison" but actually says that society does not tolerate rapists.<br /><br />I guess they couldn't do that right now because society does tolerate rapists - because, well, he's such a nice guy, and she was drunk and acting promiscuous, and he really didn't mean to, and perhaps she should have shouted no louder...etc...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-43775831212146146962009-12-03T11:14:47.714+00:002009-12-03T11:14:47.714+00:00Mark wrote, "For example we might agree that ...Mark wrote, "For example we might agree that if we want to reduce violence it must be managed by introducing good manners into society."<br /><br />Mark seems to be presuming that most people have bad manners. That is not my experience. It is also my experience that most people, whether working class or middle class, try to instil good manners in their children. That's probably also true of the upper class, but I don't get to meet many upper class people.Vanilla Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07946634138308342764noreply@blogger.com