tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post6908670690275331733..comments2024-03-28T11:31:11.928+00:00Comments on Penny Red: Objectification: what if the world were different for a day?Penny Redhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07677315565893516941noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-58068212728042358112014-03-27T01:09:18.020+00:002014-03-27T01:09:18.020+00:00Google "men".Google "men". Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09349533232890787682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-62545672919005354892013-07-12T20:35:27.745+01:002013-07-12T20:35:27.745+01:00Global Türkey Sohbets : sohbet & sohbet odalar...Global Türkey Sohbets : <a href="http://www.agirsohbet.com" rel="nofollow">sohbet</a> & <a href="http://www.agirsohbet.com" rel="nofollow">sohbet odaları</a> & <a href="http://www.dinichat.com" rel="nofollow">dini sohbet</a> & <a href="http://www.dinichat.com" rel="nofollow">dini chat</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17602389412661617707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-66692773442242852292013-01-09T06:07:51.667+00:002013-01-09T06:07:51.667+00:00Money, money, money, mon-ey. Sex sells crackers to...Money, money, money, mon-ey. Sex sells crackers to little old ladies for their parrots. The Truth is just an alibi. We all got justifications, doesn't mean they're right.It's never nice when you realize you're a whore. But, hey, we all are.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14210821350030238611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-51650762170712815172012-06-17T14:57:23.151+01:002012-06-17T14:57:23.151+01:00Very well-written, and a worthwhile thought experi...Very well-written, and a worthwhile thought experiment. I'm reminded of Douglas Hofstadter's '<a href="http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html" rel="nofollow">Person Paper on Purity in Language</a>', which employ a related device...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-6263053599566466632010-07-20T21:07:25.073+01:002010-07-20T21:07:25.073+01:00A very fine article indeed. However i'd just l...A very fine article indeed. However i'd just like to make one point. Women are currently, and have been for the last few years or so, out performing men in all areas of education and in finding graduate recruitment. Yes the pressure to look good and be passive is horrific, but it seems there are atleast a cirtain number of women that it is not having the desired effect. And thank Bog for that.<br /><br />p.s. if someone has already made this point i apologise. i am lazy.Lawrencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-29424091250201756152010-03-27T10:18:02.119+00:002010-03-27T10:18:02.119+00:00As men currently have their own impossible standar...As men currently have their own impossible standard by which women judge them, this illustration fails on so many levels. Such a discussion requires gender reversal, not gender replacement. I would argue that it is easier to be good looking for the opposite sex than it is to be rich for the opposite sex. Thus this hypothetical reads like gay porn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-75142232935351167532010-03-25T16:45:42.601+00:002010-03-25T16:45:42.601+00:00Wow, What a piece. Add me to you male admirers.Wow, What a piece. Add me to you male admirers.zipdrivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05954127824601851166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-65336367529395075492010-03-17T17:52:24.173+00:002010-03-17T17:52:24.173+00:00Blimey. Your writing has always been excellent, bu...Blimey. Your writing has always been excellent, but recently it seems to have reached a new height. Totally amazing. Thank you. <br /><br />I am writing this on the 17th, so I have read the posts above it too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-64069417011189528652010-03-16T05:47:00.868+00:002010-03-16T05:47:00.868+00:00Also, my previous comment was not meant to detract...Also, my previous comment was not meant to detract from the rest of the post, which I largely agree with. I don't think representing men as stupid or as violent offenders is any better than representing women as sex objects but I'm conscious of the fact I can turn on the TV and find lots and lots of men who are NOT defined by being either stupid or by being abusers/rapists, even if those are very pervasive themes.<br /><br />I CANNOT easily find women who are not in some way defined by their sexuality.Shaunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591257770409459076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-87105735137147554862010-03-16T05:17:34.685+00:002010-03-16T05:17:34.685+00:00This is very good. While there are issues with the...This is very good. While there are issues with the representation of men in the media (mainly that men are stupid and/or violent offenders), women's representation is particularly troublesome because that's all there is. While a boy can likely FIND a male role model, there are far fewer options for girls.<br /><br />...However, I think you exaggerate in talking about women who "fall out of the system." Most college graduates, and admissions are women, and the gap is increasing. Girls increasingly do better in school in all areas--when it was girls who were lagging in math and science, there was an outcry: "What can we do to help girls succeed??" Now that it's boys who are failing, society just shrugs it's collective shoulders and goes back to women's issues. In the US there's a office for Women's Health but not for Men's; spending on female or female-dominant medical issues vastly outstrips the reverse, and states provide services for women's medical issues but not for men's. More women are employed than men (even though, arguably, more women CHOOSE to be homemakers) and more women have health insurance.<br /><br />None of this means there aren't women's issues, even in the West, and there are not MAJOR problems with women's representation in the media and women's stories, but to paint it as some monolithic system where women are disadvantaged at every turn is disingenuous.Shaunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591257770409459076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-7634280280745349852010-03-12T07:25:49.840+00:002010-03-12T07:25:49.840+00:00Yo Laurie, check this ad out - it's your reven...Yo Laurie, check this ad out - it's your revenge, I imagine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEtmQIRTYlkRob Tennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-23321096171328839272010-03-10T13:52:24.233+00:002010-03-10T13:52:24.233+00:00(Disclaimer: I'm a woman)
This reads as incre...(Disclaimer: I'm a woman)<br /><br />This reads as incredibly self-pitying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-71279666051875292582010-03-09T22:12:18.847+00:002010-03-09T22:12:18.847+00:00Edmund's right, I guess I am missing the point...Edmund's right, I guess I am missing the point a little.<br /><br />I guess what troubles me about Pennies essay is the implication that well-educated feminist should sit in judgement on the media industry to prevent thicker women's self-esteem from damage.<br /><br />There is something deeply sad about a society where the pornography depicts women with a healthier body-mass-index than a national newspaper :-(<br /><br />Anon of Not SearchedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-59302447881082504032010-03-09T20:23:46.156+00:002010-03-09T20:23:46.156+00:00The points made about the gay press is that it'...The points made about the gay press is that it's small scale and therefore avoidable; which doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of unrealistic body images promoted through it that perhaps need to be questioned. The reason why sexualised images of women are so pervasive is that they are absolutely everywhere - you simply cannot avoid it.<br /><br />Another point is that the gay imagery doesn't seem to effect heterosexual men's self-image because they are exposed to very little of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-14264522312111246252010-03-09T04:04:33.561+00:002010-03-09T04:04:33.561+00:00You seem to think that the gay male press wouldn&#...You seem to think that the gay male press wouldn't have the same unrealistic body image as the straight press has about women (or, for that matter, about men). I suggest you go read some of it, whereupon you would discover that your monograph above is not a radical reversal of the status quo, but actually a documentation of what already happens in print for people who fancy men.Nicolainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-62574413778813702902010-03-09T01:35:55.454+00:002010-03-09T01:35:55.454+00:00Thank you.
It's hard to get into seeing this,...Thank you.<br /><br />It's hard to get into seeing this, but that's not because it's so wrong (it is); it's because it's so currently entrenched that it's women who have to deal with this that it's hard visualizing it any other way.<br /><br />It'd be nice to not have to visualize it at all. My merits are my brain & personality, not my body.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-79550199983948097092010-03-08T09:25:36.733+00:002010-03-08T09:25:36.733+00:00"If you were living in a tribe in the Amazon ..."If you were living in a tribe in the Amazon you wouldn't be surrounded by decontextualised, digitally manipulated 'images'...."<br />Quite. But that reinforces the point that I was making. <br />In real Amazon tribes like the Matis in Brazil, nakedness was obligatory upon entry into the tradtional Longhouse.<br />The inequalities between men and women that exist in their society have nothing to do with the "objectification" of the human body.<br />Identifying this as the problem blurs the issue.<br />It opens the door to reactionary disgust with the human body.<br />Either self disgust, or enforced moral disgust.<br />It's the capitalist media that turns the image of people's bodies into commodities to sell things.<br />Money always changes hands somewhere along the line.<br /><br />PrianikoffAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-13615517703054752292010-03-08T09:14:15.592+00:002010-03-08T09:14:15.592+00:00Don Draper -
I also work in advertising and if yo...Don Draper -<br /><br />I also work in advertising and if you really believe what you typed then I can't believe that you have been in advertising very long.<br /><br />People don't want to POSSESS or RESEMBLE something - companies want them to want to possess or resemble something and we create the images to tell them why.<br /><br />It is political - we don't sell people things they want to look like. We sell them images they can't achieve and tell them that they should want to look like that in order to justify selling products. The products don't make them look like our adverts tell them because if they did then we wouldn't have an aspirational image to sell them, would we? <br /><br />Your "things are the way they are" attitude is lazy and unimaginative. Unfortunately our industry is rife with this. It's funny because we are paid to come up with new and creative ways to sell products and we should be trying to deliver. The attitude of the world is moving on and it is ridiculous that a lot of advertising is still stuck trying to sell them stuff like it is 1968.JenniferRuthhttp://twitter.com/JenJenRobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-6401270987560412162010-03-07T19:46:50.514+00:002010-03-07T19:46:50.514+00:00"Imagine you're living in a tribe in the ..."Imagine you're living in a tribe in the Amazon.<br />You're confronted by real-life images of bouncing breasts, naked buttocks and swinging cocks all day. But it doesn't have the effects described (counterfactually) in this piece."<br /><br />If you were living in a tribe in the Amazon you wouldn't be surrounded by decontextualised, digitally manipulated 'images', but by *actual* breats, buttocks and cocks, presumably many of them attached to perfectly ordinary looking people of various ages. The whole point is that the ideal to which women (and to a lesser, though increasing, extent, men)nowaday aspire is *impossible* - even the youthful, dieted, plucked, waxed, tanned, toned and often surgically altered women the images are based on *still* aren't good enough, if the amount of photoshopping they endure is anything to go by. <br /><br /><br />KatherineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-23618523247793142112010-03-07T03:02:49.427+00:002010-03-07T03:02:49.427+00:00Anonymous said...
" Penny's world-whe...Anonymous said...<br /><br /> " Penny's world-where-men-are-objectified wouldn't bother my geeky male friends much, their sense of self is in their careers and interests. They know they're not pretty, and they'd prefer to be, but they ultimately don't care that much."<br /><br />--<br />I'm a geeky male and I know I'm not pretty but I'd prefer to be. I ultimately don't care very much.<br />The thing that one needs to think about is, in penny's posited world, would I have ever had a chance to become myself? <br /><br />Would I have ever had a chance to define my sense of self in terms of career or other interests.<br /><br />I must certainly concede that I would not have had anywhere near as many moments of social approval from pursuing interests aside from my physicality as I have in my real life and I certainly would have received more positive social re-enforcement when I did concentrate on physicality. There is no telling who I would be in Penny's world-where-men-are-objectified.<br /><br />I would either be similar to who I really am but would have had a much harder and generally more tedious time getting here or I would be someone that I can't much respect. In either case it's cause for though.Edmund Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10471283229920563028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-12455038410518762782010-03-06T22:20:37.385+00:002010-03-06T22:20:37.385+00:00Anon -
They know they're not pretty, and they...Anon -<br /><br /><i>They know they're not pretty, and they'd prefer to be, but they ultimately don't care that much.</i><br /><br />Then again, they haven't lived in a culture where pretty draconian expectations are placed upon their physicality.BenSixhttp://bensix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-6429340571908209442010-03-06T17:53:20.705+00:002010-03-06T17:53:20.705+00:00Penny's world-where-men-are-objectified wouldn...Penny's world-where-men-are-objectified wouldn't bother my geeky male friends much, their sense of self is in their careers and interests. They know they're not pretty, and they'd prefer to be, but they ultimately don't care that much. Men are always allowed to substitute money and education for beauty. Women can, look at Dominica, but they're not really supposed to.<br /><br />Anon of Not SearchedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-13416673960736334062010-03-06T16:51:18.442+00:002010-03-06T16:51:18.442+00:00It's like this debate we were having a while b...It's like this debate we were having a while back about airbrushing. My view then, and I'll stand over it, is that if the media were full of male pinups with digitally enhanced cocks we'd soon see it being taken seriously.<br /><br />There's also a broader point about the culture, and how the images are appropriated - do women find them alienating, do they embrace a sort of ersatz femininity, or whatever. Are images being constructed around what men are supposed to like, rather than what they do like. This may be a prejudice of age, but if you see porn or glamour photography from 20 or 30 years ago it's like something from a different planet - natural tits, tummies, cellulite, even (shock horror) pubic hair. With all the misogyny there was back then, there was still this idea of women looking beautiful as women - it really worries me that young women are being sold on the idea that beauty is all about looking as similar as possible to a blow-up doll. Or if millions of women buy these celebrity magazines that pillory famous women for just being very beautiful and not impossibly perfect, what does that say about the consumers' attitudes?<br /><br />Actually, your point about objectification of male physicality is well taken, and tells us something about patriarchy, but it's not at all implausible. There is a fair amount of this around, it's just not nearly as pervasive outside of certain parts of the gay scene. Straight men will take a while yet to be socialised into these sorts of neuroses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-27318989903383475342010-03-06T14:30:22.364+00:002010-03-06T14:30:22.364+00:00"And so government remains silent, as legions..."And so government remains silent, as legions of young men drop out of the system, fail to fulfil their potential or grow up into miserable, half starved adults."<br /><br />Umm..considering that young men seem to be the problem child of all societys demographics, this "Ooh if young men had to walk a mile in womens shoes" doesn't really seem to wash? And it's not like the above image isn't something new unless Beckham thrusting his groin out for Armani has been completely forgotten?<br /><br />"These men don’t seem to be doing very much. Usually, they are moronically thrusting and jerking around cereal boxes, insurance packages, bottles of shampoo and soap"<br /><br />Ha ha! Oh gosh, like that doesn't happen already? My favourite is the guy who's so clueless he thinks he's hoovered up his dog.<br /><br />A guy called DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4343658614010405479.post-83626990621841861132010-03-06T13:49:56.019+00:002010-03-06T13:49:56.019+00:00This writing is wonderful. inspiring and truthful....This writing is wonderful. inspiring and truthful.<br /><br />'...as you look past them, unsure how to react to the freakish weight of their humanity.'<br /><br />This is also a very beautiful sentence.Jadrahttp://www.centreofthemeasure.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.com