Friday 19 June 2009

Britain's Got Fascists: for the Huffington Post

I know that a) this is a cheat post and b)I'm supposed to be on holiday, not working my tiny butt off trying to get articles down for big online magazines, but here it is: on differences in attitudes to migration in London and New York, for the Huffington Post.

Any contributions to the debate, here or at the HuffPo, would be greatly appreciated. If I get lots of comments they might let me write for them again...


  1. I think if New York City were nearer the Mexican border, it would be more obvious that the US has racists too, as well as other bigots.

  2. commented.

    related: immigration's been on my mind a lot over the last few days. Have a look at if you have a couple of minutes to kill, and I'll tell you the full story over tea at some point if you're interested.

  3. Good post, Laurie. Some dumbass comments already up, however. One person pulled the 'BUT LABOUR BANS CHRISTMAS' card. I lol'd.

  4. Loved your posts, LazyStudents. I wonder whether that person even realises that Xmas and Boxing Day are Bank Holidays, and Divali is not!

  5. Yeah right you have an talent in blogging...

  6. PS Okay, Boxing Day not a Bank Holiday in Scotland, but you still get my drift. Anyway, I'm off. Latest burlesque routine makes debut tomorrow! BBC4 has declared tonight to be Leonard Cohen Night, so I will take that as a SIGN.

  7. Well done, little girl.

  8. "distinction is drawn between people of immigrant heritage and illegal immigrants, only the latter of whom appear to face sustained resentment from certain sections of the right."


    Also, massive differences in the US and UK voting systems mean that comparing relative representations of far-right parties in each legislature is fairly meaningless.

  9. May I recommend for the grass roots of pro-migrant work in the US and more information on the US situation.

  10. In addition to points re: deportation over at Huffington, I think you're being a bit disingenuous about London's attitude to immigration given that it elected a guy with a pretty radical liberal agenda on the issue:

  11. The legacy of slavery is also a major factor in the US. A lot of the migration to America was not voluntary but forced, and black 'immigrants' were not given any kind of welcome!!

    I don't mean to downplay the role of the UK in the slave trade, but UK racism isn't founded on a direct local experience of that relationship of exploitation; here it is more bound up with imperialism.

  12. Eh differences in attitude to migration

    .. how can you describe/measure that ?
    Can you give us some clues please.

  13. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  14. Penny, are you going to let anon's fascist propaganda just sit there...? If you aren't in a position to regularly check what is being posted on your blog, then you really shouldn't let comments go through without moderation!

  15. Curious that I haven't heard anything about this so called "rape epedemic" then. Considering I actually live in Sweden and all.
    In fact, whenever someone brings it up they're never actually from Scandinavia for some reason...
    I wonder why that is?

  16. Have deleted Anonymous' friendly neighborhood hatespeech.

    CSRTW: yes, really! It's very striking. Wherever you're from, as long as you are an AMERICAN CITIZEN (*hand on heart, flag*) then that's okay.

  17. You can't be here 24/7. I bet you deleted it as soon as you could.

    @ Mr Feathers - yeah, whatever, go on, patronise people all you want, it'll make it more fun when they bite back.

  18. Disappointd to see you call yourself a patriot in your fawning eulogy to the Beast since nationalism is a disease usually practiced by the facist right wing that you claim to 'hate' so much. Also dissapointing to see you buy into this hatespeach nonsense as free speach includes the stuff you dont want to hear, doesn't it?

  19. Oh do stop trolling, Selma. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows the difference between nationalism and patriotism, and you do, too.

    Freedom of speech includes a lot of things I don't want to hear; but hatespeech, which I won't stand for, includes dismissing whole ethnic groups as inherently criminal, which is why I deleted that comment.

    You have a right to speak - which is why that comment DID appear on this blog before being deleted. What you have to earn, and this is crucial, is the right to be heard.

  20. @Selma:

    "nationalism is a disease usually practiced by the facist right"

    Except that the word Laurie used was *patriotism*, which, as even a cursory glance over British, French or US history would tell you, has been as much the preserve of liberals and radicals as of conservatives, if not more so.

  21. I think the left has to seriously think about this post-modern fascism, which has made racism acceptable in the eyes of some by deliberately fusing it with cultural differences, and then making these differences points from which to rally people under a divisive set of politics. Aside from protest voting, and the usual knee-jerking and poor excuses for the white middle class to spit bile at the white working class, it must never be forgotten that the aim of these people is to turn the soft racism of it's tentative supporters into a form of fascism proper. It'll take a lot of doorstep work in order to compete with their relatively successful strategy of participating in 'respecatble' mainstream politics.

  22. It`s time to accept that humans are incredibly tribal in nature and that it`s actually impossible for a government to be fully above the cultural mores of the population which it represents.
    Now, personally, I`d love it if Britain as a whole rejected nationalism and reverted to a state where we identify strongly only with some small immediate group, working together with outsiders to complete mutually benefical projects - but the serious danger is that without some idea such as nationalism tying us together, without shared culture and visual cues to demonstrate we belong together - those tribal instincts will lead to us turning against each other.
    Considering the historical background, it actually makes sense to be afraid of people outside of your social group and if you`re afraid enough the violence becomes a self fufilling prophecy.
    So... I think we have to think about what we`re actually going to do about tribalism, since ignoring it just isn`t possible.

  23. Oh yes and I recommend you stop using that old canard about "waves of immigration keeping us vibrant as a nation" the angles, saxons, jutes, Vikings and normans (which was the last time we experienced mass immigration) took their land at the point of a sword.
    I`m not too sure about the current estimates, but I remember reading once that pretty much all the celtic men in England were killed during the Saxon invasion.

    So if we consider these historical examples to be relevent it should be as a warning to protect ourselves against mass immigration.

  24. Vanilla Rose
    I totally support your comments above. It is true that penny Red can't be blog-in-sight 24/7. She has other important things to do... knicker washing in the sink being perhaps the most important.

  25. Hey Laurie - ace post as per usual m'dear. Recently found a shipping document showing a brave Polish/Austrian ancestress fleeing to Ellis Island in 1910 for the same reasons. I love finding this stuff out :-)

  26. Mr D, I am sure we agree that clean knickers are important to a girl's morale.

  27. Well, not only did my routine go rather well (some flaws but none serious and I absolutely loved it), but I have also done my level best to post lots of responses to Penny's Huffington item! I want a medal!!!!

  28. Well done Vanilla Rose you have won the gold medal. No one deserves it more than you. With the gold medal comes an all expenses paid holiday to New Zealand. Please visit me on the way... I'm in Wagga Wagga Australia.

    I don't get out of the country much so I'll be grateful for any visitors particularly ones who seem extremely delightful. And you're a dancer too?

  29. I have two left feet so I was delighted to find burlesque was about more than just getting arms and feet to work in harmony. I realise that some people try it and don't like it, but that does not give them the right to make inaccurate assumptions about why other women might enjoy it.

    My routine that I am working on (the mask/crawl one, not as kinky as it sounds, google "mask crawl hand beast beauty moon") is at least as much mime (with accessories) as about dancing.

    I politely decline your offer, at least for the moment. Nothing personal, apart from hardly knowing you, but this year I was on a plane for the first time since 1984. And I still need to work on the thing of "not panicking every time it jolts around a bit".

  30. PS I just googled those words and found one of my own posts!

    "'There are no hoists, lifts or wires involved. Merely a chain and two masks. (Google "mask chain beauty hand crawl moon beast" and the song should come up.' ..."

  31. So sorry you couldn't accept the first class trip to New Zealand via Wagga Wagga. There is a picture on me on my blog with a chainsaw. Please do feel alarmed that my demeanour matches that of my saw. Penny Red herself will testify that my comments have not only been politically correct but free from ugly nastiness. In fact sometimes I think that as I walk along the street there is a halo above my head.

    I've been on quite a few planes so I know what you're talking about when it comes to quick sudden jolts. Clean knickers are definitely needed at such times.

  32. Vanilla
    I googled your words and yes your reference does appear on the front page of Google. I'm off to tell my friends that I have been communicating with someone famous. You probably wont talk to the likes of lowly me again.

    In fact I love dance and according to myself am not too bad at jigging me bits. Earlier this year I went to the River at 2 in the morning. There was heaps of smoke from the Victorian fires. It was a sensational scene. I did aboriginal style dance and played the didgerdoo thru my hands.

    Sure you don't want that ticket Vanilla?

  33. I'm perplexed. Penny, you've been in New York how long?

    America has a very straightforward citizenship program. It really is simple - be in the country some almost trivial amount of time, prove you can converse at a rudimentary level in English (this is not to exclude anyone; it's simply an acknowledgement that the road signs are written are English), and take a very simple test. Then you take the oath, and you can become an American Citizen. Millions do this, every year.

    The onus is not on the applicant to prove they want to be American. To be denied a chance at citizenship, the government has to prove you don't deserve it. It's an open, almost friendly, system. Petty bureaucrats notwithstanding.

    However - you break the rules, and the full power of the Federal Government will be felt upon your neck. The people who are charged with ensuring you obey the rules are very serious about upholding The Constitution, and the reputation of the INS. (Government officials can, in many cases, be personally sued for Constitutional breaches. But, in my experience, they uphold the Constitution of the United States mostly because they actually believe in it.)

    (Note to anyone going to 26 Federal Plaza, NYC, for anything: the line you want is the shorter one. The person at the end of the line will tell you that you should be in the longer one. You should be in the shorter one, but if you start off in the longer line, you will be sent to the shorter one. And vice-versa. Start off in the right line and you'll get plenty of reading in. Petty bureaucrats exist for a reason. It is rumored they are Satan's answer to angels. I wouldn't know, being an atheist. But I do know Petty (INS) Bureaucrats exist. I've had to deal with them.

    New York is a city of immigrants. Most of the people you meet are from somewhere else. They haven't forgotten it, it's just not that important.

    Carolyn Ann

    PS I was in NYC on Saturday! I wish I'd known, I'd love to have tried to met you. (I'm not sure if that would have been possible, but it might have been nice! Jeez, I miss New York. Oh, I'll be back up that way in a few weeks. Will you still be there? (Cheeky, I know...)

  34. Bill Corr in Arabia29 June 2009 at 05:06

    Muslims constitute 10% of the British prison population but fully 50% of the French prison population.
    'British' Muslims must try harder!

    If you want to know the facts about the British National Party, go to their website; most of what Penny Red wrote was emotional drivel.

    One contributor wants to know more about the Muslim Rape Epidemic in Scandinavia

    Bruce Bawer now lives in Norway.
    Read his piece online in the
    Spring 2009 CITY JOURNAL

  35. Bill Corr in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia29 June 2009 at 11:20

    Illogic really MUST read the Bruce Bawer piece in Spring 2009 CITY JOURNAL:

    " ... in 2001, 65% of the rapes in Norway were committed by what the country's police call 'non-Western' men - a category consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims, who make up just two percent of that country's population ..."

    DITTO 82% of crimes in Copenhagen - from a total of non-European immigrants constituting under 10% of the urban population; that's EIGHT TIMES their fair share.

    ... and in Finland the Somalis seem to have all other ethno-cultural groups beaten hands down, committing well over SIXTY times their 'fair share' of ALL crimes.

  36. A little late, I know, but I couldnt let the point about patriotism go as I think its important. Here are a quote or two concerning patriotism for you to ponder:
    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.
    George Bernard Shaw

    "Heroism on command,senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionatelt I hate them!"
    Stephen Decatur

    As to your charge of trolling, well, its just a shortcut to thinking isnt it?


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